Youth, interrupted
The other side of ageism
My favorite audiences for the corporate trainings I do are people in their twenties and early thirties. They want to learn, so they are usually interested and engaged. They are curious. Often they start asking me questions about difficult work situations, even if they aren’t connected specifically to the training topic.
The women ask me more questions, because I am not shy about talking about my experiences as a woman in corporate America. Some of the questions that arose in a recent training made me think about the other side of ageism.
I have written many words about the unskillful ways I and other people over 40 are treated in the workplace. Which is true. And ageism is a frequent topic served up to me by the Almighty Algorithm that is predicting subjects that interest me.
What I hear less about, possibly because of the Almighty Algorithm, are the ways in which people in their twenties are treated badly in the workplace because of their age. It may also be because the posters of words on LinkedIn and various trade publications don’t talk to many people early in their career.
(Yes, I said posters of words as opposed to writers of words because we know many of these people are using AI to aggregate the words of actual writers like me and pretend they are their own. But I digress.)
Two examples that came up in this recent training were younger women being repeatedly and consistently interrupted by men in work meetings and younger people of any gender being questioned about their age in a demeaning way.
The first question was from a young woman in her early twenties who said she and her (young, female) friends talk about how they are interrupted over and over by men at work. “They’ve tried everything what can they do?” she asked, for her friends.
First, try just talking over the person interrupting you. Keep talking. We’re socialized not to make trouble and to avoid making men uncomfortable, but simply and firmly refusing to yield the floor can sometimes lead to a moment of awkwardness where the interrupter will stop talking. This can also be perceived as aggressive and cost you, which I don’t care about, but you may need to consider.
Another option is to enlist the support of an ally with more status, rank or social capital, who will agree to address the interrupting. The ally can use phrases like, “can we let Jeanine finish her thought?” or “I’d like to hear what Jeanine has to say,” or, in an ideal universe “let’s not interrupt each other, Jeanine, go ahead.”
Another young woman asked what to do when someone senior comments on her age.
“You’re so young! I started my career when you were in pre-school,” an (older, white) male commented on her youthful appearance – because of course not everyone “looks their age.”
Ageism is discriminating against someone because of their age. There’s no difference between the corporate guy who doesn’t think I know anything because I’ve got gray hair and the one who questioned this woman taking up space in a professional setting because she appears youthful. Same thing, different sides of the coin.
There is no reason to talk about someone’s appearance in the workplace. We know this, but commenting on youth is often excused, although it is just as inappropriate as commenting about skin color, hair type, weight gain or loss, or disability.
What are the narratives behind this type of question? Is the implication that the young person lacks talent or skill because they don’t have the years of experience the interlocutor might have? I find it is more about the interlocutor’s perception of their own age. “My doctor looks like a child” flies in the face of the demonstrable fact that you can, indeed, be a board-certified surgeon and still be much younger than your older patient. It is the patient’s perception of their own aging and who their “contemporaries” are that is at issue, not the experience of the surgeon.
Too often, people make these stupid comments out of a potent blend of lack of awareness and ageism. Many people get older and don’t want to admit that their generation is no longer the trendsetter, the cutting edge, the cool kids.
Look at the middle-aged white women who pile into the comment sections with vitriol when someone who doesn’t look like them makes an astute or humorous observation based on a cultural reference the older women don’t understand. They don’t realize that not everything is for them or about them. In their reluctance to let go of that cultural spotlight, they get angry and criticize.
I saw a recent peevish post on LinkedIn from a late 30 something who was displaced by a 20 something in a job doing social media marketing. The younger person became the older person’s boss. The assumption brandished by the older person was that the 20 something couldn’t possibly have the acumen and experience the 30 something had and a rank injustice had been done. At no point could the word poster admit that their new boss might just be more talented.
Talent. Some people have it, and it shows up early, and smart organizations let them run with that talent. Years of experience don’t guarantee competence or capacity or talent. Experience can be useful in professions that are built on knowledge and specific processes, as many are, like medicine or law. But many endeavors rely on the burst of innovation, the unexpected insight, the new way of thinking, or raw talent. We understand this when it comes to mathematics, physics, athletics or dance. But we miss it in the corporate world too often.
As for what I told the young woman who got the paternalistic question about her age?
Depending on the circumstances I advised two options.
1. Just look at him and don’t say anything. Let that go on until he – or someone else – breaks the silence. It’s a great non-verbal way to register disapproval. I pretended to be her and showed her the stare. Neutral face, no smile, no comment, pointed eye contact. The group gave a kind of satisfied chuckle cause that stare is potent.
2. Point out your value. I would probably try to do this in a light but specific way (since confronting bullies can be dangerous) and say something like “I guess that’s why I’m so good at social media strategy, which is why I’m here.”
These young people that I train don’t exhibit ageism to me. I’m not suggesting that it doesn’t happen, it’s just never happened to me, and I think that’s the norm. They grew up with women in power (albeit limited, given where we live), most of their mothers worked outside the home. They aren’t surprised at an older woman being in the workplace any more than I am surprised at them being in the workplace. If they feel like I can teach them something useful, they don’t care how old I am. I wish the rest of us could return the courtesy and see the talent and openness that makes me confident, again, that the youth will do a better job running things than my generation has.